Build suggestions and/or help

[mew905]

I'm doing several things so if you would like to tell me what I could improve on, make sure you list the computer number first, before saying what could be changed. I'm looking for bang-for-the-buck performance, and yes energy efficiency does count! This build is coming in march so expect there to be several changes.

#1: Dell upgrade: I'm running an Athlon X2 3800+, 3GB of PC5300 DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 8800GT. Can I expect any gains from upgrading to an Athlon X2 5200+ and 4GB of OCZ SLI Certified PC6400 (DDR2 800) RAM? I'll be getting a bigger harddrive to but that isnt really important to overall gaming performance. I think my 8800 is bottlenecked in games, thats why I want this upgrade. I play at 1680x1050 so max graphics would be nice.

#2: Friend upgrade: He's running a Pentium 4 2.8GHz and a GeForce 6200 AGP, nuff said. If I buy him new parts, would a cheap GeForce 8200 motherboard, GeForce 9800GTX (only $199 now, would like it for the hybrid power savings), Core 2 Duo E8400 and 2GB OCZ (OCZ is cheap now and I hear they're pretty good) PC8500 DDR2 RAM be good enough? Should I just downgrade to the 8800GT 256MB or even the GS (apparently it has huge unlocking potential)? He plays on a 1024x768 monitor so I suppose even an 8600GT would suffice but its only $25 cheaper than the 8800GS G92, giving the power he may need should he get a bigger monitor.

#3: Ex-Girlfriends new PC: This one I'm most concerned about, this is a new PC for my ex who I went out with for 11 years since uhh... kindergarten? She moved away and I lost my vehicle(s) so we decided to part ways. She's got a HP PC running a Pentium 3, a 100GB harddrive, I think 256MB of RAM and not sure what video card (they just upgraded it so it may be an FX 5500 or something, I dont think it has an AGP slot.
I want to build her a new PC to show her I still care. She's an artist, she uses photoshop alot so I think I'll go with ATi (hardware accel), she (surprisingly for a girl, no offense to any girls here, kind of sexist stereotype) plays a very, very wide variety of games, from RPGs (WoW, Final Fantasy), to FPS (Doom 3, Portal... if you consider that an FPS) to Racing (Gran Turismo on Playstation), to rhythm (DDR and she wants to try Guitar Hero). She's also an audiophile so I wanna get good speakers and a sound card.
Here's what I got planned for her: Ultra Lanbox Micro-ATX case, 600 Watt XVS power supply, 500GB harddrive, 4GB OCZ Crossfire Certified RAM, Intel G35 mobo, Core 2 Quad Q6600, and a Radeon 4870 (dont want all that hot air in the case), Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Titanium PCI-E x1, and Logitech G51 surround speakers. Not sure if a headset would be better though. A blu-ray player and DVD burner, and a Floppy/card reader combo. I also plan on a 24" wide LCD monitor, a tablet (honestly I have no idea what to look for in these), and not sure what to stick in the final PCI slot.

Any suggestions would be great, especially on the last one there.

[YMAA]

Originally Posted by mew905

#1: Dell upgrade: I'm running an Athlon X2 3800+, 3GB of PC5300 DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 8800GT. Can I expect any gains from upgrading to an Athlon X2 5200+ and 4GB of OCZ SLI Certified PC6400 (DDR2 800) RAM? I'll be getting a bigger harddrive to but that isnt really important to overall gaming performance. I think my 8800 is bottlenecked in games, thats why I want this upgrade. I play at 1680x1050 so max graphics would be nice.

Yes, you probably would see gains from getting the new CPU, but at high resolutions games are GPU-limited, not CPU-limited. Meaning that the extra cash for a CPU probably wouldn't be worth it since you're not into benching. That being said, since you're a folder you would see more PPD, though I don't know how much since I haven't folded on an AMD machine. My suggestion is to just upgrade the RAM and leave the CPU alone. Or, try to see what motherboards you can get that will fit in the Dell case and work with the Dell PSU that will let you overclock the 3800+. Can you provide a link to the OCZ RAM you're looking at? There may be something better for the money.

In fact, it might be worth it to not upgrade this machine at all until next year, so you can save your pennies for a brand-new Nehalem build. There really isn't a lot to be done with a proprietary AMD machine.

Originally Posted by mew905

#2: Friend upgrade: He's running a Pentium 4 2.8GHz and a GeForce 6200 AGP, nuff said. If I buy him new parts, would a cheap GeForce 8200 motherboard, GeForce 9800GTX (only $199 now, would like it for the hybrid power savings), Core 2 Duo E8400 and 2GB OCZ (OCZ is cheap now and I hear they're pretty good) PC8500 DDR2 RAM be good enough? Should I just downgrade to the 8800GT 256MB or even the GS (apparently it has huge unlocking potential)? He plays on a 1024x768 monitor so I suppose even an 8600GT would suffice but its only $25 cheaper than the 8800GS G92, giving the power he may need should he get a bigger monitor.

9800GTX is good, though so is the 8800GT. With a 1024 x 768 monitor though, an 8600GT would pretty much have the power he needs. How likely is it that he'd get a new monitor within the next few months? If he plans to, then I'd say 9800GTX or 8800GT would be the way to go. OCZ is alright, if it's cheap enough go for it.

Originally Posted by mew905

#3: Ex-Girlfriends new PC: This one I'm most concerned about, this is a new PC for my ex who I went out with for 11 years since uhh... kindergarten? She moved away and I lost my vehicle(s) so we decided to part ways. She's got a HP PC running a Pentium 3, a 100GB harddrive, I think 256MB of RAM and not sure what video card (they just upgraded it so it may be an FX 5500 or something, I dont think it has an AGP slot.
I want to build her a new PC to show her I still care. She's an artist, she uses photoshop alot so I think I'll go with ATi (hardware accel), she (surprisingly for a girl, no offense to any girls here, kind of sexist stereotype) plays a very, very wide variety of games, from RPGs (WoW, Final Fantasy), to FPS (Doom 3, Portal... if you consider that an FPS) to Racing (Gran Turismo on Playstation), to rhythm (DDR and she wants to try Guitar Hero). She's also an audiophile so I wanna get good speakers and a sound card.
Here's what I got planned for her: Ultra Lanbox Micro-ATX case, 600 Watt XVS power supply, 500GB harddrive, 4GB OCZ Crossfire Certified RAM, Intel G35 mobo, Core 2 Quad Q6600, and a Radeon 4870 (dont want all that hot air in the case), Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Titanium PCI-E x1, and Logitech G51 surround speakers. Not sure if a headset would be better though. A blu-ray player and DVD burner, and a Floppy/card reader combo. I also plan on a 24" wide LCD monitor, a tablet (honestly I have no idea what to look for in these), and not sure what to stick in the final PCI slot.

I'm guessing you want to build her a SFF rig from the uATX case. Something to watch out for is that you have to be careful putting a quad in a small case, they can have ventilation issues. Especially since you'll probably be limited to using the stock or another low-profile cooler. My suggestion, since she's a gamer, is to use an E8400 or (if you have to get her a quad) a Q9300/Q9450.

Ultra's cases are...meh at best. My suggestion is the Silverstone Sugo SG-01 case, which has a better build quality. Or, you could go with a slightly larger uATX tower, the Silverstone SG-03. The latter would have better ventilation, something to think about if you think she really needs a quad.

I've never heard of XVS power supplies, the Corsair 550VX is a good one.

Which G35 mobo? Asus P5E-VM HDMI? That's a good one, but G33/G35 doesn't handle quads that well while overclocking, not sure if that's something you plan to do with her machine. It's a solid board for dual cores though, and a Yorkfield quad would do better than a Kentsfield in terms of thermals. And the extra cache may help out with her Photoshop work. My G33 board is capable of taking a quad past 400FSB (though I'm worried about the VRMs), and the Asus G35 is pretty comparable to my Gigabyte G33. The difference between the two is in the onboard video, the chipsets OC equally well.

She shouldn't need both a Blu-Ray player and a DVD burner unless she has to run dual opticals. I do have two DVD burners in my machine, but I can't think of a time I've ever had to run both at the same time. Copying two discs to the hard drive at once doesn't count, in my case it takes the same amount of time because they both go over the IDE bus (and I'll be keeping my IDE opticals until motherboard makers stop putting IDE ports on their products). I suggest you get her a Blu-Ray DVD burner and save some money, unless she needs the dual opticals. Alternately you could just get her a PS3 and a normal optical. That way she gets a console and a movie player, though she won't be able to burn Blu-Ray discs.

Good choice of sound card, although a lot of people like the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude because it has optical output and it's not made by Creative Labs those rat bastards. The XtremeMusic I've had for two years is most likely the last Creative sound card I'll own. Good speakers, can't go wrong with nice Logitechs. On the speaker/headphones choice, does she live in an area where neighbors would complain about loud noises coming from her house? If so, headphones may be a better choice. Also, if she's a frequent LAN-partygoer, she won't be able to bring her speakers. I haven't been to one that allows them, they usually only let people use headphones.

I don't know anything about tablets either.

Dell makes some of the best 24" displays around, though they are a little pricier. Look around for good prices on displays that use S-IPS panels, they're the best for speed and color accuracy (important for artists).

If you can't think of anything to go in the last PCI slot, don't put anything there. It'll only add heat and not leave room for air for parts that need better ventilation. Like the video card. HD4870 is a good choice BTW.

[mew905]

Originally Posted by YMAA

Yes, you probably would see gains from getting the new CPU, but at high resolutions games are GPU-limited, not CPU-limited. Meaning that the extra cash for a CPU probably wouldn't be worth it since you're not into benching. That being said, since you're a folder you would see more PPD, though I don't know how much since I haven't folded on an AMD machine. My suggestion is to just upgrade the RAM and leave the CPU alone. Or, try to see what motherboards you can get that will fit in the Dell case and work with the Dell PSU that will let you overclock the 3800+. Can you provide a link to the OCZ RAM you're looking at? There may be something better for the money.

In fact, it might be worth it to not upgrade this machine at all until next year, so you can save your pennies for a brand-new Nehalem build. There really isn't a lot to be done with a proprietary AMD machine.

Well the folding is done on my 8800GT, and I think we've concluded that its really not CPU limited, at least on Vista, using only 10-15% of CPU. XP however the CPU usage is pretty high. The thing is that in a game such as say, Company of Heroes, I get 15-20 fps with max gfx, whereas most review sites say it should get just over 30-35-fps average. Mind you maybe RTS are more CPU intensive than say... Need for Speed or Unreal Tournament, hence the low FPS (most review sites use a high-end quad core CPU)

Originally Posted by YMAA

9800GTX is good, though so is the 8800GT. With a 1024 x 768 monitor though, an 8600GT would pretty much have the power he needs. How likely is it that he'd get a new monitor within the next few months? If he plans to, then I'd say 9800GTX or 8800GT would be the way to go. OCZ is alright, if it's cheap enough go for it.

Well, the 2GB OCZ SLi Certified PC6400 DDR2 RAM is only $63.99, then there's a $30 rebate on top of that dropping it to $33.99. For some reason the crossfire RAM is $109.99 for the same spec... ever notice anything with the ATi logo other than video cards are quite a bit more expensive? Like that Lian-Li case... $699, ouch.
Yeah, I figured an 8600GT would do the trick at 1024x768, it was good for me at 1280x1024. I was going to give him my 6600GT which would cost $20 for shipping but for an extra $40 he can have an up-to-date, 100% working video card (my 6600GT fan is either dying or getting badly gummed up). Still not sure about getting him a new mobo, RAM and CPU, I mean his board DOES have both a PCI-E x16 (@x4...) and AGP x8 slot.

Originally Posted by YMAA

I'm guessing you want to build her a SFF rig from the uATX case. Something to watch out for is that you have to be careful putting a quad in a small case, they can have ventilation issues. Especially since you'll probably be limited to using the stock or another low-profile cooler. My suggestion, since she's a gamer, is to use an E8400 or (if you have to get her a quad) a Q9300/Q9450.

Ultra's cases are...meh at best. My suggestion is the Silverstone Sugo SG-01 case, which has a better build quality. Or, you could go with a slightly larger uATX tower, the Silverstone SG-03. The latter would have better ventilation, something to think about if you think she really needs a quad.

I've never heard of XVS power supplies, the Corsair 550VX is a good one.

Which G35 mobo? Asus P5E-VM HDMI? That's a good one, but G33/G35 doesn't handle quads that well while overclocking, not sure if that's something you plan to do with her machine. It's a solid board for dual cores though, and a Yorkfield quad would do better than a Kentsfield in terms of thermals. And the extra cache may help out with her Photoshop work. My G33 board is capable of taking a quad past 400FSB (though I'm worried about the VRMs), and the Asus G35 is pretty comparable to my Gigabyte G33. The difference between the two is in the onboard video, the chipsets OC equally well.

She shouldn't need both a Blu-Ray player and a DVD burner unless she has to run dual opticals. I do have two DVD burners in my machine, but I can't think of a time I've ever had to run both at the same time. Copying two discs to the hard drive at once doesn't count, in my case it takes the same amount of time because they both go over the IDE bus (and I'll be keeping my IDE opticals until motherboard makers stop putting IDE ports on their products). I suggest you get her a Blu-Ray DVD burner and save some money, unless she needs the dual opticals. Alternately you could just get her a PS3 and a normal optical. That way she gets a console and a movie player, though she won't be able to burn Blu-Ray discs.

Good choice of sound card, although a lot of people like the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude because it has optical output and it's not made by Creative Labs those rat bastards. The XtremeMusic I've had for two years is most likely the last Creative sound card I'll own. Good speakers, can't go wrong with nice Logitechs. On the speaker/headphones choice, does she live in an area where neighbors would complain about loud noises coming from her house? If so, headphones may be a better choice. Also, if she's a frequent LAN-partygoer, she won't be able to bring her speakers. I haven't been to one that allows them, they usually only let people use headphones.

I don't know anything about tablets either.

Dell makes some of the best 24" displays around, though they are a little pricier. Look around for good prices on displays that use S-IPS panels, they're the best for speed and color accuracy (important for artists).

If you can't think of anything to go in the last PCI slot, don't put anything there. It'll only add heat and not leave room for air for parts that need better ventilation. Like the video card. HD4870 is a good choice BTW.

True about the last PCI slot. I want it to be clean and preferably color-coded, so I've been looking for a red mobo to go with the red RAM and Video card, or red/black or (i guess ATi's colors) Red/white. I dont like it when PC's look like a circus-in-a-box. I'll look into the dell thing. I didnt know there was much of a difference, I know Dell is touting something called Color Gamut? (97% on most of their monitors and 103% on their 30"?)

I asked her if she preferred headphones or speakers, she said speakers (And shes never experienced surround other than @ theatres!), but she lives in a duplex with her little sister, and parents, so I figure headphones will be better (that and apparently they can be much better than speakers, according to a few forums)

yeah, I've been looking at that Prelude for a bit, $219, only $30 more than the Titanium, and people are just raving how good it sounds. However in my experiences working with car audio, I've come to learn that the audio chain is only as strong as the weakest link, including cheap wires.

The Blu-ray I'm not even 70% sure about. They're still rediculously expensive, and I was only planning on using a blu-ray combo drive, not two different ones LOL, sorry for the mixup. All of it will be over SATA to help get max bandwidth as well as reduce airflow restrictions.

Havent exactly picked a mobo yet, so no problem there, she wont be using onboard so maybe I could go with a G31 even? I didnt know Quads got that hot as well, I dont plan on OC'ing so there's no problem in that aspect. I was also only planning on going with a Radeon 4850 but because they (According to reviews) get pretty hot and the 50 just dumps air inside the case, I figured it'd be better if I got a dual slot due to the already restricted-air case. I was also thinking about getting her the 9800GTX and GeForce 8200 mobo so she can see the benefits of Hybrid Power, that and the 9800GTX is (again, as I said in the first post) only $199, the cheapest Radeon 4850 I can find at this point in time is now $235 (up from $169!). Plus I could also borg the machine into folding before I send it to her . I was also thinking, what about a Phenom X4? would that work? It's a little more expensive than the Q6600 (without a heatsink though, the Q6600 for $199 is OEM...), all the phenom X4's available to me are black editions (IIRC) and include fans.

Not sure what you mean by SFF rig but I just want her to have as much room as possible, plus my last uATX build was pretty fun (Apeva X-QPack2 I think it was). And the XVS power supply is one of Ultra's modular power supplies, its pre-Active PFC so its not one of the 'energy efficient' ones, but all the cables are custom cut-to-length to specifically fit the uATX case.

And finally, regarding the tablet: I WAS going to buy her a touch screen, but they lack pressure sensitivity that tablets have (up to 1024 levels, or 2048 my guess for high-end ones), that and touch screens come only as big as 17" and have really bad contrast ratios. (600:1 vs 1000:1 now, up to 3000:1 for dynamic ones even, I know they go higher but its just an example).

[logainofhades]

Dell system may not allow for a cpu upgrade. I would just save your money for now and do nothing with that system.


Bleh to the 8600gt. Would not go anything lower than an 8800gs/9600gso 384mb. Like you said, only $25 difference. The 384mb versions are good cards for low res gaming.

[beerandcandy]

i think you typed way too much information and we didnt read it all
please make a new post and make it more focused for what you want to get done

[YMAA]

Originally Posted by mew905

Well the folding is done on my 8800GT, and I think we've concluded that its really not CPU limited, at least on Vista, using only 10-15% of CPU. XP however the CPU usage is pretty high. The thing is that in a game such as say, Company of Heroes, I get 15-20 fps with max gfx, whereas most review sites say it should get just over 30-35-fps average. Mind you maybe RTS are more CPU intensive than say... Need for Speed or Unreal Tournament, hence the low FPS (most review sites use a high-end quad core CPU)

Yeah, RTSs are more CPU-intensive than driving games or shooters usually. Unless you're comparing Warcraft III to Crysis on the other hand

Originally Posted by mew905

True about the last PCI slot. I want it to be clean and preferably color-coded, so I've been looking for a red mobo to go with the red RAM and Video card, or red/black or (i guess ATi's colors) Red/white. I dont like it when PC's look like a circus-in-a-box. I'll look into the dell thing. I didnt know there was much of a difference, I know Dell is touting something called Color Gamut? (97% on most of their monitors and 103% on their 30"?)

According to Wikipedia:

In color reproduction, including computer graphics and photography, the gamut, or color gamut (pronounced /ˈgæmət/), is a certain complete subset of colors. The most common usage refers to the subset of colors which can be accurately represented in a given circumstance, such as within a given color space or by a certain output device.

Originally Posted by mew905

I asked her if she preferred headphones or speakers, she said speakers (And shes never experienced surround other than @ theatres!), but she lives in a duplex with her little sister, and parents, so I figure headphones will be better (that and apparently they can be much better than speakers, according to a few forums)

These are a very highly-rated set of Sennheiser headphones:

Amazon.com: Sennheiser HD-595 Premier Headphone: Electronics

Alternately, there are a few headphones with 5.1 surround sound support marketed directly to gamers, like these Razer Barracudas:

Amazon.com: Razer HP-1 Barracuda 8-Channel Gaming Headphones: Electronics

Originally Posted by mew905

Havent exactly picked a mobo yet, so no problem there, she wont be using onboard so maybe I could go with a G31 even? I didnt know Quads got that hot as well, I dont plan on OC'ing so there's no problem in that aspect.

I'm not sure if I'd even trust a quad at stock on a G31 motherboard. The chipset may be fine, but the VRMs on a budget board would be even worse than those found on most G33/G35 boards.

Originally Posted by mew905

I was also only planning on going with a Radeon 4850 but because they (According to reviews) get pretty hot and the 50 just dumps air inside the case, I figured it'd be better if I got a dual slot due to the already restricted-air case. I was also thinking about getting her the 9800GTX and GeForce 8200 mobo so she can see the benefits of Hybrid Power, that and the 9800GTX is (again, as I said in the first post) only $199, the cheapest Radeon 4850 I can find at this point in time is now $235 (up from $169!). Plus I could also borg the machine into folding before I send it to her . I was also thinking, what about a Phenom X4? would that work? It's a little more expensive than the Q6600 (without a heatsink though, the Q6600 for $199 is OEM...), all the phenom X4's available to me are black editions (IIRC) and include fans.

Phenoms run even warmer than the Kentsfield quads. Plus the Intels would be the better gaming chips and they'd fold much faster. The only edge AMD really has over Intel is in the integrated graphics on the AMD motherboards, according to MeltDown.

Originally Posted by mew905

Not sure what you mean by SFF rig but I just want her to have as much room as possible, plus my last uATX build was pretty fun (Apeva X-QPack2 I think it was). And the XVS power supply is one of Ultra's modular power supplies, its pre-Active PFC so its not one of the 'energy efficient' ones, but all the cables are custom cut-to-length to specifically fit the uATX case.

SFF = Small Form Factor

As much room as possible? In a SFF rig? That's a bit of an oxymoron unless you get a larger SFF case like the Qmicra (which is pretty much the best SFF case out there), and even that is pushing it a little.

All in all...I stand by my recommendation not to put a quad in a SFF case unless you can get a good cooler for it and make sure the case you choose has very good airflow. Otherwise I'd get an E8400/E8500 since they are much cooler-running...and since she's a gamer they're usually the better choice anyway. An E8400 sounds like it'd be a huge step up from what she has now in everything she does anyway.

[mew905]

Alright, I'll grab an E8400, its $199 with the stock cooler (the E8200 is like $259 for some reason...) and probably the 9800GTX with the GeForce 8 series motherboard (should be one available in Socket 775 by march). Yeah, I meant as much room as possible around the computer, not inside it. There's 3 micro-towers (actual towers) by Apevia that I may look into. Would a velociraptor drive be better for her? or should I go for raw storage? 500GB's are only $79.99 and the 1TB drives are still like... $250, I would go RAID 0 500GB's but I heard onboard raid controllers are pretty much slow software copies (someone on this forum I think said that)

[1Tanker]

Originally Posted by beerandcandy

i think you typed way too much information and we didnt read it all
please make a new post and make it more focused for what you want to get done

Agreed beer. I first saw this post and the reply and said to myself... "looks like a small book"...then moved on.

[3lfk1ng]

The e8400 will not let you down.

[YMAA]

Originally Posted by mew905

Alright, I'll grab an E8400, its $199 with the stock cooler (the E8200 is like $259 for some reason...) and probably the 9800GTX with the GeForce 8 series motherboard (should be one available in Socket 775 by march). Yeah, I meant as much room as possible around the computer, not inside it. There's 3 micro-towers (actual towers) by Apevia that I may look into. Would a velociraptor drive be better for her? or should I go for raw storage? 500GB's are only $79.99 and the 1TB drives are still like... $250, I would go RAID 0 500GB's but I heard onboard raid controllers are pretty much slow software copies (someone on this forum I think said that)

A hardware RAID card would be faster than the onboard RAID on motherboards because of dedicated hardware. A nice one would also have other features like being able to migrate to another motherboard...with onboard RAID you're stuck with that board; you'll have to recreate the array with new partitions on the new board. Dedicated RAID cards are faster in benchmarks, but I don't think they'd be that much faster if you aren't benching.

Velociraptors are pretty pricey...dunno if they're worth it especially since after hearing what surround sound sounds like she may want to get more high-quality music or start encoding videos.

My suggestion would be to get a 150GB Raptor or something for the OS/programs drive and a larger 500GB drive for data. I wouldn't put work or anything I'd cry too much about losing on a striped volume, guess I don't trust them for that. It also makes it too difficult to get data OFF the RAID array should you want to move it to another computer. I used to do that with a pair of 250GBs and it made it a big hassle to get data off the array onto a new 500GB drive.

It would help a lot if you could come up with a total budget you'd like to spend for this build...makes it a little tough to judge how much else to get without a definite amount to put towards it.

[mew905]

about $1000 would do, not including the monitor, keyboard, etc., I want to throw together a folding rig as well as a few upgrades for my dell (the 5600+ is the max with the new BIOS, I have a 3800, but I can grab a 4600+ with fan for $73, would that be a fair size boost?) Thinkin about a 4870 for my dell since I dont have a mobo with hybrid Power, but again that will reduce my folding PPD to about 1/2. I'll have about $6000 in March and $3000 is going to pay off my traffic tickets (finally)